Episode Transcript

Please note this transcript was generated by AI and contains errors including missing and misspelled words.

Meryl: Hi, Tracy. Great to have you on the podcast today.

Tracey: Hi Merrill. Thank you so much for having me. Looking forward to our chat.

Meryl: So today we're gonna be talking about burnout and I think it's a very topical, Issue in the accounting industry. It's something I've noticed more and more over the last couple of years of accountants talking about not taking on new clients because they're too busy feeling stressed.

 It's one thing after another from Covid and then the government relief to tax deadlines, to changes in legislation I, I feel like there's a trend of people leaving the industry and not enough young accountants joining the. Possibly worried about long hours, not enough pay for the work and stress involved and I think there's things we can do about it.

you are a person I look to who has made some of those changes in your life Was potentially feeling burnt out and then worked through a process of coming out the other side of that. So I'd love to get your take on the industry, first of all and what you mentioned earlier that there were some things you didn't like about the accounting industry, and I think they might play into that.

And then let's go into a little bit of your story around burnout and recognizing what those signs were.

Tracey: Sure. So I think the first question then, Merrill, is what I didn't love about the industry or some of the observations I've made around the industry in the last. Few years. I think that's a great question. So I'm 50 years old and I've been in the industry as a qualified charter of accountant for 25 years, and the industry has changed so much in that time, in that when I think back to the beginning of my career, a client of a firm was off and a client for life or it seemed that way to me. I don't know if others have different observations, but.

It was quite common. And there was a real respect between the client and the accountant in that we both had our various skillsets, but there wasn't a ton of you gotta remember, this is even before the web that I started. I remember interestingly, you know, we used to have a computer room and we'd go into this little room of which there might have been 10 of us on staff, but maybe four computers, and we'd find one of these PC.

I don't even know if they were called PCs back then. And we'd put in our floppy disk and we'd do a tax return, which was very rudimentary, and then we'd save it to the floppy disk and then we'd remove it and go back to our desk. When we think about this world of information age and Google.

You're getting constantly questions from clients about I just read on this article about this tax incentive, or I think I can deduct this, you know, and there was very little of that happening back at the beginning of my career in that it was a bit more I guess maybe a doctor patient relationship where there was a ton of respect as to the background you brought to the conversation and you didn't feel so challenged, I don't think, by the clients, but in.

It feels to me these days, like clients are forever value pricing shopping or, that was my feeling in that there was a plethora of options in front of them as to which accountants to work with and how much accountants might charge for various services. And there were conversations happening continually about the value price equation, which as an owner of an accounting firm made me feel very stressed and very.

It made me feel like I always had to perform a little bit like a singing canary, I suppose. like really justify the fees that we were charging. And so I guess in terms of observations in the industry, clients are moving around a lot more. They're questioning the value that they're getting.

For the work that you're performing, but they're also, I think, more adversarial in their conversations with you about the information they're seeking and whether your opinion in fact is right, and potentially even opinion shopping, which is creating a lot of stress and anxiety. On top of that, we're now in a world where, I'll call it the Big Brother world where organizations such as the ATO O, the Tax Practitioners, boards, statistics Australia, you know, all of these different organizations are transferring information back and forth all of the time.

And as a result, we could maybe focus on single touch payroll, but there would be many examples of where deadlines are narrowing far more than. 25 years ago where there just never really seems to be a period in which you can rest and relax. There's just always that next deadline for business activity statements for single touch payroll, for tax return compliance, and it creates a low level of anxiety.

I don't know if was necessarily present. Maybe it was, but it certainly feels to me a lot more challenging than it was those many years.

Meryl: And then if we lead into how that was making you feel as a business owner, were there any other stresses for you? What was day-to-day like when you were running cloud, counting

Tracey: I ran the business I think for a bit over 10 years. And originally I was pinching myself all the time. Back then it was a really exciting time as well. It was a right around the time, it was before zero. Just before Zero became a big general ledger package, , but it was after the introduction of Dropbox.

And Dropbox was a real game changer for US accountants because it allowed us to work remotely on M Y O B files. You would have these conflicted copy type issues, but you didn't have to be at the client's computer in the client's premises working on M Y R B. And so it allowed you. Some flexibility around remote working and it was certainly way before the introduction of overseas staff, but it did introduce a dynamic where there were lower barriers to entry.

You could work quasi remotely from your home instead of a client's premises. And it felt really exciting to be able to be a business owner and be able to earn an arguably higher fees than you would be as an employee. So initially it was a really great. . But I think anybody that's good at what they do grows a little faster than maybe they might expect because, the word gets out and perhaps clients refer other clients and you start to make networks and you attend conferences and very quickly I found myself working 50, 60 hour weeks.

 This was still before I had staff and I was starting to be. happy about that dynamic. It coincided with me having very young children which was a real struggle because I had started the business initially to work flexibly around the needs of very young children. But I always liken it to the game Pacman, where, Pacman initially is eating the dots and then all of a sudden the dots start eating you.

That's how it felt to me at the time. And in terms of when I remember sort of anxiety and depression sort of creeping in, I would say pretty quickly within the first two or three years of running the business, I started to become very irritable. Inability to relax and feeling a bit helpless around how that dynamic had reversed itself in terms of working those big weeks and trying to meet those compliance deadlines.

So it was pretty.

Meryl: And was there anything that you did at that point? Is that when you started to bring in staff to try and help with the workload?

Tracey: Yeah, that was absolutely the first solution that I arrived upon, is that intellectually, if I was working 50 or 60 hour weeks, that the solution would be to bring in other staff members to work with myself to try to reduce my workload. And that was the very first tactic I tried. So I took An apprentice, I call them apprentice.

It was a young lady studying to become a chartered accountant. And that was my first foray. And within, I'd say maybe a year or two after that, I think I maybe had three or four staff members.

Meryl: and then how did that evolve? I know when we met, you had even a bigger team. I think it was something like 10 staff. So how did your stress levels and how did all of that go? As the team grew and the business grew?

Tracey: well, Opposite to what I had hoped and I think maybe lots of accountants listening to this podcast can smile and really relate to that. I always thought I would probably enjoy employing people. I would enjoy the camaraderie and the ability to share problems amongst a bigger group of people and that my stress levels would go down.

But I, I think in hindsight, thinking back to that time, there is nothing more stressful than being an employer for all sorts of reasons. The first is. , depending on the quality of the staff you hire the appreciation that no one will do a job as well as you will do yourself. And that's a hard thing to accept.

And no one will be as stressed or as worried about your business. If they're not a co-owner, then you will be, but in addition to that, you then feel responsible for those people you feel responsible for feeding them employment. You have to remember. To encourage and motivate them. You have to be there when they're upset you have to performance manage and incentivize them.

It becomes a full-time job. Just that piece, let alone obviously servicing the clients. And there are, I think a lot of us get to the point where we really question. our decision to hire externally because it's often quicker to do and better think to do things yourself, but then you're back to that first situation where you're working the 50 or 60 hours a week.

So there seemed to be no solution there, and I found my stress levels, if they were creeping up slowly in the first three years of the business, really escalating from that point. In the next, say two. Five years in, I was probably the worst I've ever been. And remember, my kids at that stage would've been preschool as well, so that was adding a lot of pressure.

Meryl: And then if we fast forward to the time that, that we met and and now, and I know you've made a whole lot of changes in your life over the last couple of years really impressive to watch w was there a moment, was there a final straw? Was there something where you said, all right now I'm gonna make some changes cause I know.

That you brought in regular exercise, there was a whole lot of things that you implemented to help you live a more healthy, happy life. Was there a deciding moment to make a change? was it a more, a matter of making small changes along the way?

Tracey: There was no aha moment or day where I said this has to change. I think it was I guess maybe I'll back up two steps. I don't think, thinking back to those, I'll call it 10 or 15 years of that period of mental health. Situation where, no question in retrospect, I was suffering from anxiety, potentially low level depression.

I don't really know what the words are, and I think I may have had a bit of postnatal after the birth of my second child, but I don't remember. thinking during that time I was mentally unwell. In fact, I had a lot of empathy and awareness of others that were suffering from that and not really relating or not really seeing myself in the same situation as them.

But I definitely knew at the time that there were things in my life I wanted to change. For example, I was. Quite overweight and as the 10 or 15 years progressed, became more overweight. So I was never really a fit and healthy person before, but I didn't ever suffer, from a weight issue previous to the business.

Starting up and I was also drinking at very escalated levels. So initially I would've been, I would've considered myself a normal drinker, back in university and early working years before children might've, enjoyed some beverages a few nights a week. But I I wouldn't have called that problem drinking, but escalate by five years I was drinking daily.

And I knew intellectually that there was a problem there I was drinking more than I should. And so when I was thinking about what's wrong with me, when I was, in that period, it was about that I have to eat better, I have to stop drinking, I have to become fitter and healthier. So I knew all of those things were happening, but I think that the next warning sign, and again, I see this all in retrospect, but I wasn't really understanding it at the time, was, and maybe some of your listeners can relate, was Sunday nights.

I. Get very irritable and anxious on a Sunday. And I see now thinking back, it was all about having to start work on Monday, but I didn't really understand it and I would just, I just couldn't relax. I just couldn't sit down on the couch or watch Netflix or read a book or just felt really like, there was almost like this knot in my chest and then it would kind of just unwind on a Friday, if that makes sense. Cuz I knew I had two days off and. When I think back to those feelings, there's no question that I suffered from what they call imposter syndrome about. I'm going to get caught, like some client on Monday or Tuesday is gonna send me an email that says there's been a huge mistake on my corporate tax return and you've cost me a hundred thousand dollars and I'm calling in the lawyers and I'm gonna sue you.

 I was in perpetual fear of that, but something as innocent as you, CC. My lawyer in this email, and you shouldn't have, would set me off. I'd feel just as guilty or just as terrible. Like it wouldn't matter what sort of mistake was made. I felt like I was. Lurching from catastrophe to catastrophe all week, and I just, I couldn't recover from it. Every time it happened, it just took another chip off of my self-confidence and I was just sinking and thinking back again to that time, and I'm going back more recently, maybe two or three years ago I was really in a bad way. know, I was irritable constantly.

I was not present with my children or my husband. I was. Detached and disinterested in everyday life. I was as I mentioned really on edge on Sunday night, of heading into the week. So when you asked, was there a. Was there an event or something that changed? No, it was a series of small steps.

So the first thing I decided to do was to stop drinking. And I don't think I was quite at the stage where I had to check myself into a rehab, thankfully. Although I don't mean to make light of that. Everybody's situation is different. And I had tried over the years to take a break from drinking, and I had been successful to some measure in that.

I think I had a stint of three months and six months, so I knew I could do it, but. . I don't know. Something just stuck this time. and, And, you know, that always is worse before it gets better. By the way, if anybody can relate to wanting to take a break from drinking as well, the first three months you don't just feel magic , you feel worse, you feel it even more irritable and even more on edge and In my view, and everybody has different addictions.

I don't think any of us are perfect. Some of us are addicted to food. Some of us are addicted to alcohol or to drugs or to adrenaline or gambling, but if you have something like that going on in your life and you're also think potentially you can relate to some of these stories I'm sharing, you've gotta start somewhere.

And for me, that was the. and once I managed to make it through, I think it might have been three or four months of staying sober, so not drinking, by the way, for those that drink they may know this, you go straight to sugar because there's a lot of sugar and alcohol. And so when I managed to stop drinking, I started to eat a lot of chocolate and a lot of sugar.

And so I knew that I had to then deal with the unhealthiness and , I decided then to take up the fitness journey and I don't know why I chose it, but I chose running, so I downloaded an app on my phone called Couch to 5k, and I'd highly recommend it if anybody thinks that's something they'd like to try.

 At the time I started I really couldn't run for more than 30 seconds, I don't think. And it's a very structured program that has you alternate between walking and running and they just inch up the running. In very small increments to make it manageable and you can repeat weeks. And I then did that.

So I, I started losing weight and feeling better about myself and increasing my stamina, and my fitness. And then it's almost like the curtains just start parting. So they parted for the alcohol and then I could see my way clear to getting fit and healthy. And then after that happened and I had, I'd shed a significant amount of weight.

I realized then that I had all of these things happening to me physically that I didn't even know. Like There was just the gift that keeps on giving my mind got really clear and I felt like I could just sit with the problem and. Before, back when I was in my mental health cycle, and maybe again, many people can relate to this, you think about a problem I'm so miserable at work, but I can't close my business because 10 people work for me, and that means that they would lose their job.

And if I stop working, what about my clients? They're so dependent on me. And you just loop. You just, you never can see your way clear to a solution there. Like you just go round and round. And even though your friends are well-meaning people in your life might say to you well, , , here's how you would solve that problem.

You don't really hear them like you're just in this internal loop. But interestingly, coming back to I guess, the little steps I took, one of the problems and the reasons I couldn't think clearly is I was drinking too much alcohol, or at least that was my situation. So I was able to remove that and clear my mind.

But the fitness really helped too. It just allowed me, I don't know why. It just calmed me down. It, it gave me all of that dopamine I needed and those endorphins to be able to look at a situation more objectively and to be able to say there is a solution here. . And so the next thing I looked at with your help Merrill, because at the time we were business partners is I really came to the conclusion that it wasn't a good fit for me being an owner of a, an accounting firm.

That was maybe the reason I had started to drink too much and became so unhealthy in the first place. Like I wasn't mentally fit enough to deal with the stress that clients were bringing to the table every day. And I didn't particularly enjoy sometimes. Parts of the job, like the tax expertise, for example, and the compliance side of things.

Although there were bits I loved about the job, so I was able with your help, but also just being in a clear head space. And you might remember this conversation between you and I. I was out, I had made the decision that I was gonna close the doors and initially that was gonna be maybe a bit of a quicker path than it had ended up.

But It was really great to work with yourself on that project and have a procedure and a process to follow through.

Meryl: Yeah, I remember us having those conversations The clarity that you had, because we'd been working together probably for about a year and a half at that point, and working on trying to grow the business. And then we realized, actually, no, that it wasn't the right thing. We needed to really get the right systems, team members in the right seats.

 And there was work to be done there. And then I remember seeing that clarity from you, and I think it was around that same time. So you'd been making progress, you were getting healthy. You were in that running routine and then you had some health news, which you're okay sharing did you wanna talk about

that and, and what that journey was like for you and maybe any change of perspective that you had from that?

Tracey: sure. But then I'd love to pass it back to you because there's a story there as well. But for myself initially so I had quit the drinking and I had gotten fit and. We had started to talk about potentially closing the business and then I found out that I had breast cancer. Just a public service announcement.

I'm sure you agree with me on this, Merrill. For any of the ladies listening, even in their. Early to mid thirties. Please go and talk to your doctor about any changes that you're noticing in your breasts. But by all means, if mammograms are on offer, or you're the age where it's a service that's being offered to you on an annual frequency, get the mammograms.

I had a mammogram and I was called back to go into that next triage level where they take a better look. They had seen something on the initial scan and within goodness it moved very quickly. Within maybe about two weeks I been told that I had breast cancer and that I would need to have a mastectomy, which is a removal of one of my breasts but um, I'm just so grateful that I got that news after I was able to quit. The addiction. I shouldn't say quit the addiction cause I don't think you're ever cured. But I was, when in a stage where I was very clearheaded and not drinking and also that I was probably as fit and healthy as I've ever been in my life.

So I am just so grateful. I can't imagine getting that news, say three years ago when I was still in a really dark place because I think your mental fitness. , going into one of those health journeys is probably the biggest asset or liability you can have in terms of how you approach it.

So that was a real door knock from the universe for me. But um, before I go on any further, maybe me you'd like to share your side of the story there.

Meryl: Yeah I'll jump in cuz there's the business perspective, but I actually also have a personal perspective on this too. So the business perspective was, alright, now we need to be in a position that you could focus on your health.

And so we quickly sold off the Australian part of the business, found homes for all of your clients or our clients and team members, and made sure that everyone was looked after as, as much as we could. The benefit of having a network in the accounting industry was amazing because we had people that we could reach out to that, that we trusted.

But hearing your news was a trigger for me to go and get all of my health checks done. So I'm under 14, so wouldn't typically go and have a mammogram, but that then started a whole process for me a couple of months behind you. And so I actually also had a breast lump discovered and then had more testing. It turned out I had the same type of breast cancer as you and so that was very shocking for me. Completely unexpected. Even as I was going through all of the tests, I was not, I a bit and healthy and under 40 years old, two young children, and it completely caught me by surprise. And as you mentioned, it's, yes, there was a physical operation to recover from, but there was also. The mental side of it. And that's what I found the most challenging. Not being able to make a decision about what kind of surgery to have. I had to wait a long time for different tests, results. Some of the genetic testing takes four or five weeks.

And so that's what I found the most challenging of not knowing. Normally I'm good at business decisions and can. Make a decision and move on. Then I found just that base level anxiety every day worrying about could this be elsewhere in my body? What's gonna happen was very challenging.

A and I was lucky that I had you to talk to who was a little bit further along than me and had been making some of these decisions. You introduced me to your surgeon and I ended up moving to. To the hospital that you went through and I really appreciated your sup. I was very lucky that I had someone like you to come along to the appointments with me and we'd be on the phone talking.

So we were no longer talking business as business partners. We were talking about our health journey.

Tracey: Yeah. It, it's crazy, isn't it? What a unfortunate coincidence, and I think I know this podcast is about burnout, but I think it's worth mentioning that I had a lot of excuses for potentially why breast cancer found me. I'm 50, so I'm a lot older than you. I've already been very open that I was drinking too much, and there's a clear correlation between alcohol consumption and.

the probability of developing breast cancer, and I'll never know if that's why I got the breast cancer, but I can't discount that. In addition, I was not, healthy or fit. So I had, carried some weight. And again, there, there are correlations there as well. So it was incredibly confronting for me to learn about your situation because you've chosen to live your life very differently than me, and none of those factors were really in play for you.

In addition, as you say, you, you're, there's a 10 year age difference or more between us, , I guess it's just a message that when it comes to cancer or any sort of illness there, there's no profile or discrimination. Everybody is at risk of developing it. And it's just another reminder to live your life in the best way you possibly can and to not let that pass you by.

So it was a real door knock.

Meryl: And for me too it made me realize, okay, every moment is precious. You never know what could happen. And lucky for both of us, we've had very good recoveries and. Looking ahead. There's some risks for both of us, but the future's pretty clear. But it was such a great reminder for me to think about how am I living my life?

Am I happy with how I'm doing things? Am I prioritizing the right things?

Tracey: Yeah.

So I guess coming back to the whole issue of burnout, I mean, obviously no one knows what's in our future and no one knows when those sorts of situations are going to arrive for us to have to deal with. But I think it's, if anybody's been through an experience like that, I think the positive or the silver lining aspect you can take out of it is at what cost, in terms of , do you wanna live the next 20 years in your life in the best possible way you can?

I e enjoying working and being the best version of you that you can be? Or do you want to continue on potentially in a role that is causing a lot of anxiety and stress? And I don't mean to suggest for a moment just because you're an accountant working in the industry, you're feeling the way I felt.

I think that's the uniqueness that we all bring to the table. But I do think it's important that if you can resonate with any of the the symptoms I. Mentioning. It's never a foregone conclusion that you're stuck. I, I often see, I think both you and I are members of many communities on social media where you'll often see a post from a fellow accountant where they'll say, I feel so upset because a client has spoken to me disrespectfully.

Or my bills haven't been paid, or, I'm really miserable, or I can't recruit people to, of the quality I'm looking for. And you just really have so much empathy for people, but. I shouldn't say, but because but's not a very appropriate word. But what I mean to say is it's never too late to sit down with a list of pros and cons about what you love and don't love about this space and make a lemonade out of a lemon, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

And that was certainly my outcome and I feel very fortunate.

Meryl: Absolutely. There's a lot of options there. There's, if you're an accounting firm owner, there's options around selling to someone else merging there's options around reducing size. I think there's pressure to grow, but sometimes a smaller practice actually can meet more of your lifestyle requirements.

Sometimes for some people like. New Tracy was changing industry. For me I love the accounting industry, so I'm planning to be here for a while but still thinking about what are the elements that I like and try to shape my role in an accounting firm and in the industry to fit the things I enjoy rather than the things that I don't.

And I think sometimes if you've been a business owner, it can be hard to go back or to move to being an employee, but there's no shame in that either there's a lot of knowledge that you can bring from being a business owner to go and work in a role as an employee or a team member, and that's an option too.

Tracey: Yeah, when I worked through my pros and cons, a lot of them had shifted over. The last let's say between 10 and 15 years. And one of the reasons you might remember I moved into the space originally is to have the flexibility around. The work week, and that is one thing that has changed greatly for most of us in the last, say five years.

In that 15 years ago, the only way I could create that opportunity for myself was to be my own boss. But these days, as I mentioned, I work for a two x and that's a company that has no physical office location. There's 70 or 80 employees. We live around the world. We work asynchronously. We're expected to perform a job and there's a notional number of hours that are assigned to us each week, but as to where we choose to work those hours and how we work those hours is completely up to us.

So that was something that I was able to find as an employee that I also didn't think I could find 20 years ago or 15 years ago. so that that's really changed over the years. And another thing, , I was really initially thinking that would be different between owning my own business and working as an employee, and this will be different for everybody's own diagnostic.

But I always thought I would earn a lot more money by owning a business than I would being an employee. I e I would be financially more secure. That's not been my personal experience and I really can't. Tell everybody else what their statistics might tell them. But that was quite an eye-opening experience for me that I could really earn as much as an employee as I, I previously earned as an owner of a business.

Now, some of that may be a reflection on the way I chose to run my business, and perhaps I should have been more astute and financially successful. But that's how it played out for me. The silver lining or the benefits of that prose versus cons for me is I'm a whole lot less stressed in terms of I'm not client facing any longer.

The role I've chosen allows me to sit a few levels behind the customers in the software company I'm working for. I'm. Reasonably similar financially and I'm still able to work completely from home or in co-working environments. So for me, there was very little downside, so I feel very fortunate.

Meryl: So if we were to turn this conversation to some strategies that other leaders in accounting firms could apply is there anything that you would do differently or any strategies that you would recommend that they follow to try and reduce burnout for themselves or for their team members to, so whether that's the team culture strategies around communication tech, it could be.

Tracey: right? That's a big question. Maybe we'll just start with, giving yourself a bit of a me a scorecard about how you're feeling. And I'm no expert, I'm not a mental health professional. But if you are feeling irritable all the time, you have an inability to relax. , perhaps you are turning to substances to help you feel relaxed, such as alcohol or drugs or whatever it is that might be going on in your life.

If you're feeling very uncomfortable on a Sunday evening. , maybe even feeling a little sick or like you have a knot in your chest. Even if you don't necessarily recognize those things as indicators of some instability around your mental health, potentially you could consider whether those are your experiences.

Now, if you don't relate to any of that, then that's probably a good sign that you're not in a situation that you are feeling like you're burned out. But if you can relate to some of those points, I guess what I would say to you, , it doesn't have to be a huge decision you make today or next week about do I close my business?

Do I keep it open? Do I change my business model? It doesn't have to be anything as enormous as that. My advice would be is take a leaf outta my book and maybe try to pick on one thing that you might be able to change about your life, and those will be different depending on everybody's circumstances, but it could be as simple as just getting out for a walk every.

you know, Try to improve your ability to be outside. Some people call this forest bathing, like getting into the bush and just enjoying nature. Or maybe it's, you try to work four days a week instead of five. Everybody's situation is different. You might think that doesn't solve the 10 other problems.

But my experience was very much, as I mentioned, just dealing with. Problem first, and then the next problem got solved and then the next, and I didn't really make the decision about closing my firm or changing my career. I think it might have been a year or a year and a half after that first small decision.

So things will just play out a little more logically, and I think you'll feel more capable of making those decisions when your mind is clear enough to make them

Meryl: So for the last section of the podcast, let's do some rapid fire tips of if you are in a remote work environment, how to switch off, because I know that can, that's one of the downsides I think of remote work. There's plenty of pros that we all know about not having the commute, having flexibility over your schedule but something that I.

Talked about, particularly in, in the accounting industry, is that ability to switch off. So I, I'll start with a couple of chips. My first one is to remove slack, whatever your communication tool is. So is it slack, is it email? Whatever that is, remove it from your phone so that when you're working.

You're working at your computer, but then when you finish work, then you're away. A and a second tip related to that is try and have a finished work time, because work can just go on, it could go until 10:00 PM Particularly as a business owner, there's always something more you could do. So try and have a hard stop o of when you're gonna log off a and walk away or drive home or walk to the next room, whatever it is.

But end work for the day and then get into your family or your home.

Tracey: Oh, you're stole my number one tip too. So I really like this. I had the same tip about removing potentially work related email and slack from your phone. I think that's a great tip. What else for me? I think it's really just understanding what gives you energy, right? So for me, I'm a very early morning person, so I've structured my work hours to start around seven in the morning, try and finish about three in the afternoon.

Now obviously I know if you've got a young family, those aren't. , easy to do. But for me, my kids are teenagers now so that's one tip. As you say, when you finish for the day, you finish for the day. So try and work in a separate area of your home that's not part of the rest of your family life. Like for me, I've got an office, I closed the door and that's the end of the day for me.

I'm also a huge advocate. Again, comes send you a personality type, but I like to take an hour or two in the middle of the day. I often will have an. uh, That really, I find that really recharging for me. Whatever floats your boat, assuming that your employer is comfortable with that, and that you make up the hours, in, in other pockets of the day.

And I'm a huge advocate, although I'm a very recent convert, so I probably am a bit hypocritical of fitness. So being able to get that hour of activity a day has made, it's just been an absolute game changer I always thought. Fitness would not be fun, and it helps you lose weight, that was the reason I did it, and it was always my attitude about it, but I hadn't understood it.

It helps you, it just makes your brain sharper. It helps you make decisions quicker. It makes you happy, it gives you dopamine. It's just a gift that keeps on giving. So if you can get some exercise every day, I'd highly recommend that as well.

Meryl: Amazing. Tracy, thanks so much for coming on the podcast. It's been a really authentic conversation. I appreciate you sharing the journey that you've been through. Is there anything else you'd like to add before we wrap up?

Tracey: I think probably the main message I'd like to give is probably anybody that's been through my journey becomes a real convert, is that, if any of this conversation has resonated with you and the accounting community today, just reach out if you wanna have a chat with myself or There's so many podcasts out there that are really great as well.

Start just educating yourself about mental health space. And I guess what I would really like to say is I've always been a very confident, self-assertive person. I never in a million years would've thought that I would suffer from mental health issues even two years ago, when I was at.

You wouldn't have convinced me that I was going through any of this, and I know everybody says this, and it can be sound very trite, but if it can happen to me, it can happen to anybody. Like all of you. Probably have some element of your life you'd like to improve in some way, and just take small steps, open your mind in the process.

Educate yourself. Uh, No one is bulletproof. We all suffer from the same things. And just introduce small changes to your life. It can be an absolute game.

Meryl: And if anyone wanted to reach out to you, what's the best way for them to do that?

Tracey: Oh, Meryl, that's a great question cuz I'm not as switched on socials like you and LinkedIn and stuff. Probably Facebook is the best way to find me and if you're a member of like small business advisors and accountants or Zero Mastermind, I tend to lurk a little bit in those groups and yeah,

Meryl: I'll drop links into the show notes for the groups that you mentioned, and if you're an accountant or a book bookkeeper, which I assume you are, if you're listening to this then you'll be able to join those groups and connect up with Tracy that way.

Fantastic. Thanks so much for coming on.

Tracey: Thanks, Merril. Really appreciate you having me.